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Thread: Elevations when inserting a junction

  1. #1

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    Elevations when inserting a junction

    Innovyze 12.3 and 12.4 appear to be attempting to interpolate elevation when inserting nodes in existing pipes. I want to turn this feature off because (1) the calculation is incorrect, and (2) I prefer to insert at elevation = 0 so I can manually check the correct elevation is used. Can someone tell me how to turn off this feature?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Keith,

    What the tool is intended to do is interpolate between the two existing node junctions on the pipe when a node is added to an existing pipe. This node interpolation should only happen when you split an existing pipe and should interpolate elevations based on the distance between the two existing junctions.

    While I could not find any way to turn this feature off, as a quick workaround if you add new elements that split pipes and add them to your domain you can use the elevation extractor to reapply elevations to the split pipe junctions based on your elevation surface and the current domain. However, the interpolated elevation assigned should at least be a reasonable estimate of the elevation of the new junction.

    However, If you add a junction that does not split a pipe it will use the default junction parameters that have been currently defined. However, if you selected a default junction with a non-zero elevation a new junction that does not split a pipe will have a non-zero elevation and will assign an elevation to match the element used to create the default element. If you are adding junctions that are not splitting a pipe and want to have a zero elevation set one of your new elements to have a zero elevation and save it as default. This will make the new non-pipe splitting junctions you add have a zero elevation.
    (click if need larger image)
    Save Default Element parameters.png


    I will ask our development team to review the new junction elevation when it splits a pipe and if there is a way to have a checkbox in order to have the ability to turn this feature on or off.

    Patrick Moore

  3. #3

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    Patrick:

    Thanks for the reply. I would like to be able to shut the feature off. Incorrect interpolation is never useful.


    Keith

  4. #4
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    Keith,

    I have asked the development team to both consider adding an ability to turn off this feature when desired as well to review the interpolation methods for pipe splitting junctions based on your questions/concerns. These checks will be completed using our current version of InfoWater (12.4 update 3 as of today 5-29-18).

    As noted, as a short term potential workaround please consider adding pipe splitting junctions to your domain or have a field in these new elements you can use to query out into a domain and apply the elevation extractor tool on just your domain to to get your most accurate elevation possible for these junctions.

    Thank you again for for taking time to pass on your suggestions and questions/concerns regarding the software. We always appreciate our users helping us continually improve our software.

    In the future, if you do have any questions or concerns regarding any of our software please feel free to forward these directly to our support@innovyze.com email address or call us at our main support number at 626-568-6869 as this is the most efficient way to have potential software issues and feature requests reviewed as our entire support team monitors that email inbox and support phone number. This is the preferred method for getting the fastest access to our technical support team to help resolve any questions or concerns our users have.

    Patrick Moore

  5. #5
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    UPDATE:Our development team has reviewed the elevation interpolation and identified a resolution to the elevation interpolation issue that will be released as part of InfoWater 12.4 update 4 that is scheduled to be posted on our update website (www.innovyze.com/updates/) by either late June or early July 2018. (Approximately 1-2 weeks from today). With this fix, the elevation interpolation will be based on the elevation of both junctions connected to the pipe that is being split and will interpolate between the elevations based on the distance along the pipe. This has been verified to work and should resolve the specific questions regarding the quality of the elevations assigned.

    A feature request has been sent to our team to consider adding a checkbox that will allow users to turn this feature off, but is still under consideration.

    As with any new junction added the modeler should always review any elevations assigned when adding new elements. While this should always provide a reasonable estimate for a junction elevation that splits a pipe, the user should always consider reapplying elevations from an elevation raster to newly added elements to ensure consistency in the model and ensure the best elevation is used for new elements added. But the interpolated elevations with the software update were added to give a reasonable estimate for new junctions that split a pipe based on the existing junction elevations of the pipe being split and the distance along the pipe.

    Patrick Moore

    If there are any further questions in this matter, please feel free to reply to this post.

  6. #6

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    Thanks Patrick

    Correctly calculating interpolated elevations will be an improvement.

    But I still think when I specify a default value for an element it should apply to all subsequent elements I create. I am amazed that Innovyze thinks otherwise. Especially without giving the modeler a warning the default won't be applied.

    Are there other defaults the program ignores?

  7. #7
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    Keith,

    We can appreciate the desire to fully customize all features and we are sorry this has caused you difficulties. This feature was added a few years ago either as a feature request or as a decision from the development team. From what we understand for many clients this change was probably not a big deal, but obviously not everyone has the same preferences or desires for how they wish to do modeling tasks.

    Balancing the concerns of all is obviously never going to 100% satisfy everyone, but our team does try to look at these things and do our best. But unfortunately, there will always be things that will not always satisfy everyone completely.

    We have noted your concerns and suggestions to the development team and this will definitely be considered in future releases. I can say at least from what I have seen in the last 3 years here at Innovyze, this is the first time I have personally heard anyone not like this particular feature though. But I can still appreciate the desire for customization and the challenges it can create if you prefer new junctions to always get added with zero elevations.

    But things that are "hydraulic" features like pipe length and elevation would not use the "default" element properties but would be updated based on the drawing length or if the new junction splits an existing pipe would be interpolated from the connected junctions. In general, most default element fields do get copied from the defaults, but some things obviously would get overwritten, although it would be rare and understandable why things would. Elevation and length are the two most obvious I can think of offhand.

    Out of curiosity, how often are you doing these tasks of adding elements manually? If you are doing this fairly often, it would explain why it would impact you more than most modelers who generally are updating form GIS files rather than repeatedly adding new elements manually. Are you in a group that is evaluating proposed new developments and doing water availability statements? Perhaps if we have a discussion over the phone we can better understand what you are doing a lot and can either make suggestions of things that may help and can better understand what you are doing as this helps considering improvements. Let me know and I can set something up.

    Anyway, as noted above, you at least have several potential workarounds that are available to you in the meantime you can consider and as our team considers changes and updates. But as this has been this way for at least the last 3+ years, it is naturally now more difficult to change something that has been this way for a while, than it would have been right after the change was implemented.

    Thanks again for your input.

    And as noted in the original response if you have a feature request or question please reach out to your regional CSM (Client Service Manager) or contact us at support@innovyze.com directly as that is best way to get this information into the right persons hands.

    Have a great day!

    Patrick Moore

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