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Thread: InfoWater; Parallel & Duplicate pipe Tool. Confusion?

  1. #1
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    Question InfoWater; Parallel & Duplicate pipe Tool. Confusion?

    Can anyone help me with my confusion re Parallel and Duplicate?


    Ver 12.3

    FROM THE HELP

    WHAT'S New in InfoWater 12.3, says:
    Locate Duplicate Pipes
    In the Network Review/Fix menu, the Locate Duplicate Pipes command identifies the pipes with identical geometry (i.e., on the top of each other) and displays the duplicate pipe ids in the Message Board. Duplicate Pipes are a subset of Parallel Pipes.


    And from the Main help itself:

    ______________________
    (emphasis & comments added, [ My Comments in Different Font] SwS)

    ___________
    HELP> Network Review/Fix Tool>Locate Parallel Pipes (& Locate Duplicate Pipes)


    Locate Parallel Pipes - Parallel pipes that share the same curvilinear shape [I think “same curvilinear shape” should read “share the same start AND end node (but direction & hydraulic propertied do NOT have to be the same)” SwS]. The Network Review/Fix Tool is able to rapidly identify all parallel pipe candidates in the network model. The user can then determine if a parallel pipe actually exists and, if so, re-route (redraw) the pipe in a noticeable manner or remove/delete it from the model if such a duplicate pipe does not actually exist as shown in the expanding text. [NB only works on active network]

    Locate Duplicate Pipes - Duplicate pipes are superimposed/parallel [I think "superimposed/parallel" should read "superimpose parallel", (as / can imply OR) SwS ] pipes that share the same geometry and start/end node [I think should say “start AND end node” not “Start/end” as latter could imply OR, SwS] The Network Review/Fix Tool is able to rapidly identify all duplicate pipe candidates in the network model. The user can then determine if a duplicate pipe actually exists and, if so, re-route (redraw) the pipe in a noticeable manner or remove/delete it from the model if such a duplicate pipe does not actually exist as shown in the expanding text. [NB only works on ACTIVE network]

    All duplicate pipes will also show up when running the Locate Parallel Pipes tool ie 'Duplicate' is a special subset case of 'Parallel' where geometry is also the same.

    __________


    Thus: the implication to me is that (1) Duplicates are just parallel pipes that are perfectly on top of one another & (2) the definitions have got nothing to do with hydraulics or direction.

    This means, if my interp is correct: that in this small Figure 1 diagram;
    fig1.jpg
    Grey, Blue & Red are all classed as PARALLEL, but only Grey and Blue are Duplicates

    ________________

    And now for some testing;
    From figure 2 below it looks as if thing work differently (from my hypothesis base on HELP), as Duplicate found pipes NOT on top of one another.
    fig 2.jpg
    And to add more to my confoooosion.... Figure 3 seems to give another answer.
    Fig3.jpg


    Can anybody help? Am I misinterpreting things?





    Stewart.
    S w Sargent, Services Development Engineer, Marlborough District Council, New Zealand.
    (40 years of modelling in 4 countries, thus far , and still learning)

  2. #2
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    Stewart,

    Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. It has already been forwarded to the appropriate team so that it can be promptly addressed. We’ll keep you informed. Thanks again.

    Just to clarify and answer your questions of how the two tools are intended to work:

    1) Parallel pipes - This is a simply a check to see if two or more pipes share the same start and end nodes and is part of typical geometric checks many modelers use when building a model. In many cases, most models will identify a high number of parallel pipes that don't overlap and are not considered a problem but are simply a function of the way the system is laid out with pipe loops to strengthen the pipe network.

    2) Duplicate pipes - These are a critical subset of parallel pipes and are intended to represent pipes that share an identical geometry (i.e. that they share all the same vertices and are thus "duplicates" of one another). Duplicate pipes are not easily "seen" when viewing the model and are generally "mistakes" that most modelers would want to rectify during a model build. They are often the primary parallel pipes of concern that modelers wished to find and rectify when they ran the parallel pipe routine. This tool is intended to help simplify the identification of these pipe duplicates that was more difficult with using the parallel pipe tool alone as it will ignore the parallel pipes generally not a concern and help quickly identify the parallel pipes generally of concern to most modelers.


    Hope this helps.

    Patrick Moore


  3. #3
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    Thanks Patrick
    That is exactly what I deduced the intention was.... And I have been using Parallel -- for years -- and as you stated -- it is an excellent tool (altho the HELP need improved -- I would suggest -- as per my orig post )
    Stewart.
    S w Sargent, Services Development Engineer, Marlborough District Council, New Zealand.
    (40 years of modelling in 4 countries, thus far , and still learning)

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    Stewart,

    We will be sure to pass on your suggestions for improving the help file to the appropriate staff and will keep you informed. Thank you again for the suggestions.

    Patrick Moore

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    Smile Thanks. Good user-support/service.

    Thanks Pat. Nice to see such a good level of support and user-listening.
    Stewart.
    S w Sargent, Services Development Engineer, Marlborough District Council, New Zealand.
    (40 years of modelling in 4 countries, thus far , and still learning)

  6. #6
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    Stewart,

    Thank you for your kind comments and know You are very welcome. Having had 15.5 years in consulting before coming to Innovyze Technical Support roughly a year and a half ago, I can appreciate the view of the experienced user of our software for sure. Thank you again for taking the time to pass on your comments and suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart Sargent NZ View Post
    Thanks Pat. Nice to see such a good level of support and user-listening.

  7. #7
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    Stewart,

    We just wanted to follow up and let you know that the matter you raised was successfully resolved. Please download the latest update (currently at the time of this post it is InfoWater 12.3 Update #2 --> Update link : http://www.innovyze.com/updates/down...date123002.exe).
    Note: To verify this is the latest update in the future please visit our update page to verify: http://www.innovyze.com/updates/.

    Thank you.

    Duplicate and parallel pipe tools are now working as noted below.

    1) Parallel pipes - This is a simply a check to see if two or more pipes share the same start and end nodes and is part of typical geometric checks many modelers use when building a model. In many cases, most models will identify a high number of parallel pipes that don't overlap and are not considered a problem but are simply a function of the way the system is laid out with pipe loops to strengthen the pipe network.

    2) Duplicate pipes - These are a critical subset of parallel pipes and are intended to represent pipes that share an identical geometry (i.e. that they share all the same vertices and are thus "duplicates" of one another). Duplicate pipes are not easily "seen" when viewing the model and are generally "mistakes" that most modelers would want to rectify during a model build. They are often the primary parallel pipes of concern that modelers wished to find and rectify when they ran the parallel pipe routine. This tool is intended to help simplify the identification of these pipe duplicates that was more difficult with using the parallel pipe tool alone as it will ignore the parallel pipes generally not a concern and help quickly identify the parallel pipes generally of concern to most modelers.

    Patrick Moore

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